So true...

Official SoC Branch for Runescape. Jagex forum thread
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Ell
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Tq9MXlPColw

I kinda miss the old RS.

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}SoC{Flycrusher
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:shock:

They should ban bots
Ruins the game completely

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}SoC{Arrow
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The video is a little over exaggerated.
I've seen bots being pretty bad but never that bad. Maybe at 'peak times" but those don't last that long.
I have never seen bots outside of the new-player spawn area but maybe that is a new thing.
It is unrealistic to say that Jagex should ban all of the bots, they just can't do that unless someone develops a system that will detect a bot 100% of the time that is highly accurate (at least 95% accurate).

To say that jagex doesn't deserve an award for their game because the community is running a bunch of bots and essentially spamming like crazy is harsh. Yes, jagex probably could do more about it but when it comes down to it, it is easier said than done.

To say that this is worse than the "old" runescape is too vague. Are we talking pre-wilderness coming back or are we talking before it was even removed, or are we talking when the only version of runescape that existed was runescape classic?

I can't say this for runescape classic but for every other version of the game this has been a problem. Yes, the volume of bots probably has increased since the return of free-trade and the wilderness but there is only one explanation I can come up with for that. When jagex removed the wilderness and free trade they made a time bomb. Any player who kept playing a made a bunch of money without free trade could instantly sell it if free trade was ever brought back. The second it came back, boom explosion. You have all of the old sites that used to sell gold coming back because they can sell gold again. You have new ones poping up because people made a ton of money and either decided they now wanted to sell it or had their account hacked.

So is this jagex's fault? Partially.
Is it jagex's responsibility to fix the problem? Yes
Is anyone helping by whining, saying they want the bots banned, and telling people not to vote for jagex? No


If you want the problem fixed offer a well though out solution.
Don't just demand that jagex fix it.
Would you respond better to "I HATE BOTS BAN THEM NOW JAGEX OR I'M GOING TO QUIT AND MAKE FUN OF YOU" or "I think that the best way to solve the bot problem would be to implement a new system whereby if a person sends a certain number of messages their account is "flagged for review"... and we could have a system where actually players could vote on whether they think the account was a bot.... [insert other ideas]"

There are a number of things jagex really does need to address, I will admit that. But we shoudl at least try and be helpful rather than critical. If you don't have a solution then you have a whole lot of nerve being critical of something.


Things jagex needs to "fix":

1.Bank space
2. Clan citadel system
3.Bots
4.Points earned in minigames (specifically castlewars)
5.Switching from having membership to not having it.
6.The filter settings (both chat and things the game tells you)

[Probably more but I can't think of them at the moment]

I can think of decent solutions for all of these but I am not going to type them out because I am lazy.

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Ell
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I saw it this bad Jake. Remember when free trade came back?

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}SoC{Arrow
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I'm not saying it's not bad.
I'm saying the way people are approaching this is not helping in any way shape or form.


EDIT: I should also note that jagex develops their own "security/anti-hack system". They do this so that exploits that are already known for currently existing systems can't be used.
They have said they are working very hard on fixing his problem. I'm willing to give them some time. Their will come a point where they have taken "loo long" but they still have awhile.

I'm still undecided on whether the fact that they continue to release other content should apply specifically to the bot problem.
Jagex works in teams so not everyone is on the "anti-bot security team". I mean they could pull people from other teams and have them focus on this and NOT release any other content,
but that doesn't necessarily mean it will go any faster. Plus people will then complain about not getting content or as much content.

As for some of my other issues raised, it would definitely be best for them to focus on these things rather than releasing new content, some of them would be relatively simple to rectify (bank space) and the community would be overjoyed.

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}SoC{Tali
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Runescape is a breeding ground for scams and bots. It has been since RS Classic through now. That hasn't changed. Jagex basically fights a losing battle - it's incredibly difficult to stop all the bots or the countless scams that are created when new systems are introduced. I know of only one person throughout my years of popping in and out of the game (or playing relatively frequently when I was younger) who got all his skills maxed without botting or scamming at all. The others I know botted part of the way. The only reason he had enough time is because he was paralyzed legs down, and he chose games and reading as his main hobbies. That leads me to why I think botting sometimes becomes such a large problem. The game requires TOO much time to get all of your skills to a high level. People don't want to invest that time. Many people think it becomes monotonous. But they still want "bragging" rights and whatnot. So they cheat to get the stats. Same idea with money, although money is kind of easy to get nowadays -.-

And I agree with Arrow. The video seems to grab a lot of the peak times and populated worlds. There are also a whole lot of people who complain about it but never offer suggestions or do anything to help out. I also agree with the list of improvements that need to be made. I would add to that list that they need to make some updates for F2P a little more frequently. But then again, I'm biased because I've never actually been a member ;)

Of course Jagex needs to constantly release new content though. It's what keeps the player-base going. But that shouldn't ever stop them from fixing problems that are already arisen. The longer they wait the more complicated it could become if they release content that makes it even worse. I could be wrong, but it seems to be they need to be in a little better touch with the community to get feedback on the problems they have in their game (yes, I know, the community is kinda big :P)

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}SoC{Flycrusher
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Well i guess your kinda right
getting to level 99 is WAY TOO HARD and nobody has enough time to do that

unless they are going to play 5 years nonstop :D

So i guess I see why people use them

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}SoC{Arrow
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I don't care how long it takes. It doesn't justify it. I have 99 woodcutting, I did all the work. yes it was hard, yes it got boring, but if you aren't willing to put in the work, you don't deserve the level.

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Ell
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I still like the game, but it has changed for the worse. They to have a system, but it takes time. Scammers can make new accounts faster than Jagex can ban them. I do agree it was biased. It was only on high pop worlds and it isn't nearly as bad on p2p worlds. It is one of the reasons why I will only play runescape as a member.
RIP F2P Runescape 1999-2006

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}SoC{Djp49
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If you don't want to see the advertisements, you can always turn off your public chat off or set it to friends... I think that's something that this guy fails to mention. Also, the living rock caverns segment? sure, it is like that on 2 or 3 worlds, but is it like that on every world? of course not. The guy that made the video is assuming that it is like that on every world, but it is not.

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}SoC{Osons
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I think the biggest issue concerning botting/cheating is it devalues the acheavements of the game. Standards have lowered. Even Jagex has made it easier to attain 99, perhaps to make cheating less tempting. Playing honestly takes a lot of work as was stated by Arrow (if clicking a mouse button can be considered work) and I have observed now aproaching my 8th honestly gained skill cape that my right index finger is considerably stronger than my left. If only now I could find a practical purpose for this new found power.

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}SoC{Djp49
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I think that video is outdated now... :twisted:

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Ell
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Then why would you bump it :P

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}SoC{Arrow
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}SoC{Ellmattay wrote:
Then why would you bump it :P
I could always delete the topic.

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B-Rye
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}SoC{Arrow wrote:
I have 99 woodcutting, I did all the work. yes it was hard, yes it got boring, but if you aren't willing to put in the work, you don't deserve the level.
whats the purpose of getting 99 woodcutting? I personally think video games should be about having fun... not boring hard work. oh, and I think WOW should die, because at this point it is just a pitiful old man who is hanging on to life, fighting against the inevitable. far better to pass on with dignity and grace, than to have tubes and machines keeping you alive (if you can call that life). perhaps RS is getting to this place. but i dont play it, so im not really one to talk.

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}SoC{Djp49
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}SoC{B-Rye wrote:
}SoC{Arrow wrote:
I have 99 woodcutting, I did all the work. yes it was hard, yes it got boring, but if you aren't willing to put in the work, you don't deserve the level.
whats the purpose of getting 99 woodcutting? I personally think video games should be about having fun... not boring hard work. oh, and I think WOW should die, because at this point it is just a pitiful old man who is hanging on to life, fighting against the inevitable. far better to pass on with dignity and grace, than to have tubes and machines keeping you alive (if you can call that life). perhaps RS is getting to this place. but i dont play it, so im not really one to talk.
Some people, including myself, enjoying working toward a goal like 99. It takes a lot of effort and grinding, but some people people enjoy the overall goal. There are some games where it's incredibly easy for everyone to access all the material. There are no parts of it that take significant time and/or effort. With a 99, it shows that you're dedicated to the game, and the skill, and of course there is a certain amount of prestige. Some people enjoy that. Keep in mind, though, that Runescape is not all about grinding, contrary to what you've heard. There are many aspects that are not about grinding.

From what I've seen of Dragon Nest, it's all about "slash slash slash you're dead"-type combat, PvP-based, and that makes up a large part of the game. In that case, the game is about grinding in its own right- button smashing. Just as grinding a Runescape skill would bore you to death, Dragon Nest combat would quickly do the same for me. This probably isn't the only aspect to the game (just as skilling isn't the only aspect to Runescape), but now I'm kind of in the same place as you are towards Runescape. See what I mean?

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}SoC{Arrow
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It's an RPG, all RPGs involve grinding.

I agree that videogames should be about fun but at the same time theres more to it than that.
I can say I had fun playing halo with my buddies but I didn't really get anything out of it.
I can say I had fun immersing myself into a single player game for hours and say that I learned x,y, and z from the storyline because it was thought provoking and brought out certain emotions.
Videogames are not just a meaningless thing that you do, they are something you experience.
In a multiplayer game you can focus on having fun, focus on conversation with others, focus on helping others, etc.
There is far more depth to videogames than fun.

As for runescape "dying" I don't think so. People have said that runescape is dead many time sand yet it still continues on and gets better and better over time.

The same thing happened with WoW. Granted there next expansion might be a bad move but it's hard to say given that no one has played it yet. I personally don't like WoW anyways so I could care less. If it dies, it dies. If it lives, it lives. Either way it doesn't really matter.

If tubes and machines are keeping someone alive, it's not really their choice at that point. I've never heard of a case where someone kept alive by a machine expressed whether they wanted to be kept alive or not while the machine was doing so. The games will stay alive as long as the players keep them alive. The devs can try as hard as they would like but it's the players that are the true "life force".

As far as getting 99 in a skill goes there is no direct purpose. However its a goal and everyone has goals in RPGs. Indirectly I can use it to make in-game money fairly quickly which i can then use for virtually anything (including helping others and spreading God's love).

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Since dragon nest was brought up I thought I would go ahead and address this. There seems to have been a fair amount of attack by dragon nest players on the runescape branch. Whether it was joking or not I do not appreciate it and see no need for it. I would appreciate it if people would simply invite people to play dragon nest if they would like to but make no comment as to their opinion of it vs runescape or how people "shouldn't play runescape because x, y, z". All MMOs have something about they that an individual enjoys or does not enjoy. Most people seem to try to avoid playing multiple MMOs at once if they are pay to play because it requires a lot of time and effort and if you are paying for it you want to put forth that effort. Beyond that runescape is a field in which SoC operates and ministers to the players of that game. If you think we are wasting our time or that our branch is dying please address me privately. I encourage you to offer suggests for how to move forward, specifically if they help make our ministry better. Otherwise I would ask that people keep their comments to themselves. It is very disheartening to see that such a negativity seems to have been used towards runescape and is becoming what i view as a potential stumbling block. I strongly believe in this field of ministry and have been working with it since I joined SoC. Through thick and thin it has survived and amazing things have happened. It has evolved beyond just providing a place for SoC members within the game and providing a family friendly environment. Not that those things are bad. I really feel like our ministry is a evolving right now and I would hate to see it lessened or halted because of negative inter-clan pressure.

I ask this as a brother in Christ.
I apologize in advance if I am incorrect in saying this or seem out of line.

Thanks and love,

-}SoC{Arrow - Jake

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}SoC{Tali
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There is far more depth to videogames than fun.
I would argue that the whole game experience should contribute to the "fun factor", thus the depth of the game is ultimately having fun, but in a myriad of ways. Whether this way is by making someone jump in their chair at midnight by playing a scary game, or making someone struggle through a strategic battle, or socializing with friends within the game, it is all part of the "fun" the game should deliver. Not everything in one game is going to make a person happy, but the overall feeling should be good. The problem I always have with people bashing Runescape is that most of them don't attempt to experience the entire game before going at it. They grind, grind, grind, but do nothing else. That isn't the way to play the game. The reason I quit years ago is because everyone I played with also quit, thus I had no more enjoyment out of the game. But I can see why others do, and I respect that.
As far as getting 99 in a skill goes there is no direct purpose. However its a goal and everyone has goals in RPGs
Not just RPG's. Almost all games. Unless the game is made in some crazy superb fashion, there will always be a goal. If there is no goal, whether it be a minor or ultimate one, then there is no purpose. If one is to question why someone would take the time to get level 99 in a skill on Runescape, they should also question why people take the time to get every achievement in a game or play a single-player game that takes 60 hours to complete. The answer to these is the same. It's a goal, and the person doing it has a good time going after and achieving that goal.

------

And as far as the issue with Dragon's Nest goes, I haven't personally seen anything. Then again, I haven't really played either game (or at least in awhile). However, a game can't cater to every player. If you don't like the game, then that's okay. But that doesn't mean you should bash it. Nor should it mean you should bash the players who play the game. They do like it, and in this case there is a very large group of people who like both games (not just in SoC). Respect each other's opinions; there is no point in getting caught up in who likes what and why with these types of things. Whichever game you play, you should love those already with us in the clan and open your arms to those who are not.

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Ell
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}SoC{Arrow wrote:
}SoC{Ellmattay wrote:
Then why would you bump it :P
I could always delete the topic.
What purpose would that fulfill?
}SoC{Arrow wrote:
There seems to have been a fair amount of attack by dragon nest players on the runescape branch. Whether it was joking or not I do not appreciate it and see no need for it.
There have been criticism of Runescape, but these were only of the game. They were not criticizing the branch itself. People criticize other games, it isn’t anything new. When Minecraft was developing as a new game there were tons of people that said, “The graphics of this game suck, how could anyone play it”. These people weren’t talking badly of the branch and it shouldn’t have been taken in a hostile way. People have a right to speak their mind and give their opinion on a game wether it is good or bad.

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B-Rye
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agreed, DN is different than RS with all the hack and slash and very little crafting. they are very much different games. I think they should merge them into one game. like dragorunesnape! for myself, the hack and slash stuff is fun if you gots some people to play with. and it looks pretty. I honestly think runescape (as a game) will out last dragon nest. but eventually old age will catch up with RS (DN might die young). that being said, I would like to take this opportunity to say, Halo is ancient. I like vintage games as much as the next guy (ocarina of time, pack man, FFVII) but at some point people must accept that a game is dead. as far as old people hooked up with tubes and what not, their family can sign a DNR to have them removed from it. but many family members are just no ready to let grandpa go (my grandpa is turning 90 soon, doing well, but even he has a DNR filled out).

here are some of my opinions
for the record:
minecraft is pointless
WOW needs to die
RS controls funky and is boring
DN gets old if you dont have people to play with
LOTR falls short of epic every day
Halo... that was a cool game when I was in high school

if i left any important games out please let me know

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}SoC{Arrow
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}SoC{Ellmattay wrote:

There have been criticism of Runescape, but these were only of the game. They were not criticizing the branch itself. People criticize other games, it isn’t anything new. When Minecraft was developing as a new game there were tons of people that said, “The graphics of this game suck, how could anyone play it”. These people weren’t talking badly of the branch and it shouldn’t have been taken in a hostile way. People have a right to speak their mind and give their opinion on a game wether it is good or bad.
Yes every game gets criticized but there is a difference between saying "I don't like this" and and saying "play this game and not this other game" and having it be a constant pressure. It should be more of an invitation to play a game that doesn't involve discouragement from playing another game. You can bash runescape all you want but don't do it in a way that deters from our branch. I respect your opinion but you need to respect the opinions of others when encouraging them to play a game with you. The current approach feels forceful and aggressive towards runescape and, indirectly, the runescape branch.

As for the minecraft criticisms I think most of those were a joke. If I am mistaken, please correct me.

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}SoC{Arrow
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}SoC{B-Rye wrote:

here are some of my opinions
for the record:
minecraft is pointless
WOW needs to die
RS controls funky and is boring
DN gets old if you dont have people to play with
LOTR falls short of epic every day
Halo... that was a cool game when I was in high school

if i left any important games out please let me know
Do you have any possitive opinions about games?

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Ell
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}SoC{Arrow wrote:
}SoC{Ellmattay wrote:
As for the minecraft criticisms I think most of those were a joke. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
Corrected.

http://www.teamsoc.net/forums/viewtopic ... =minecraft

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}SoC{Arrow
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Honestly it looked like trolling, he eventually stated that even if minecraft had better graphics he wouldn't play it which essentially made his argument pointless. Plus he never told anyoe NOT to play it, just asked why people like it.

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Ell
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I didn't hear anyone say people shouldn't play runescape.

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}SoC{Arrow
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Teamspeak last night, multiple people:

"Play Dragon;s Nest, not Runescape"
"Dragon's nest is better than runescape"
"Runescape is terrible".

Not exact quotes but fairly close.

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Ell
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}SoC{Arrow wrote:
Teamspeak last night, multiple people:

"Play Dragon;s Nest, not Runescape"
"Dragon's nest is better than runescape"
"Runescape is terrible".

Not exact quotes but fairly close.
I see people bashing the game. I fail to see where people are bashing the SoC branch.

Can you point it out to me?

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}SoC{Arrow
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As I see it discouragement from playing the game is bashing the branch. It is like saying the game we play is inferior and therefore a waste of time. If enough people "bash runescape" it pressures people not to play it.

I personally wouldn't be effected by such pressures, but others might.

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Ell
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I don’t believe in limiting people to one game is a good policy. Encouraging others to play a different game isn’t stealing members.

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}SoC{Tali
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Saying a game isn't good is okay. But going "x game sucks" or "y game is better than x game" isn't good. At least give your opinion as to why you believe this. Inviting people to play a game is fine, but by asking "hey, do you want to play this game with us?", not going "the game you play sucks, do you want to come play this game with us?"

There's a fine line between that. I don't know if it is happening, but I'll believe Arrow that he's witnessed it or similar styles of opinion-sharing.

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}SoC{Arrow
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I never said people can't play dragons nest if they play runescape. I only asked that you go for an approach similar to the one Tali just suggested.

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Ell
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Here...
I personally said that I canceled my RS subscription because I got bored of the game. I said the game is two much of a grind and it doesn’t have many team skilling opportunities (excluding dungeons). I said I play dragon quest because it is more team involved and more specialized in classes.

I like DN because it is designed for many max level characters and the purpose is to do dungeons to work for better gear.
I don’t like RS because it is designed to constantly work toward the max level and few will reach it. It is repetitive. The combat system is unfavorable and PvP is terrible.

Is this to your liking? It isn't much different than my points on TS. I can't speak for the others though.

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B-Rye
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what if i were to say "game x sucks! come play game y instead, it also sucks" would that work?

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}SoC{Tali
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I see what you did thar.

and I don't think Arrow was saying you necessarily. Really, I think it's something all of us do at one point or another, and it can be made as a general case about any game.

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Ell
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He said people on TS last night. I was on TS last night :P

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}SoC{Arrow
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I don't recall you making those points on ts, but ok.
I wasn't trying to single anyone out just express my feelings about how things were being handled as I saw it.

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Ell
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I talked about the first part. The second part was me expanding.

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B-Rye
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another question to help clear things up. what about saying some thing like "RS is a great game, though I do get bored some times trying to grind out my skills, but its still alot of fun. that being said, I think you should play it less and come play DN with us. I love DN, its very different than RS, I honestly enjoy it much more. I cant remember the last time I had this much fun. I guess it just kinda fits my play style I guess."

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}SoC{Arrow
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My only question is why do you even need to mention runescape unless the person you are talking to asks about it?

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}SoC{R3NNiS
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There is room for lighthearted competitiveness between branches. BUT if it goes beyond and comes out as ridicule, insult, or putdowns, it needs to stop. We have no room for division on such small things. I've said it many times before, but SoC is fragile. Apart from God's grace, we are one fight away from closing down.

Now is the time for apologies, forgiveness, encouragement, and reminders. SoC is not our branches, games, etc. We are God's instruments called toward witnessing to gamers. Let us not dull our edges cutting each-other, but sharpen them, and oil them so that we may be revealers of truth and grace in these dark places.

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B-Rye
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because thats what they were playing while we was on TS. hence the reason for joking around about RS vs DN. is it putting down RS (or any other game) that causes the upset, or the trying to get other SoC people to play DN with us (its hard to play two games at the same time) rather than RS. so far what seems to be put across is "find new people to play with, leave SoC people alone if they already have a game to play." perhaps my jesting has been harsh at times, it was not my intent to cause drama (its just a game after all). perhaps clear direction would be best... ie "B-Rye keep your mouth shut (prov 10:19) about how you thinking RS is boring" or "do not ask people to play DN when they are playing RS". I think that people from every branch should try to persuade other branches to spend less time playing there and more time playing a different game. if they say things that are true (RS is a grind, MC is pointless, DN is simplistic, etc) to sell their game then thats fine. in the end it only causes us to get out of our box and play with people we who we normally would not. its good for the community, the isolationist thing will only hurt SoC as a whole. I think branch lines need to be blurred. just saying a game sucks will win over no one (unless its like Hello Kitty Online or some thing) but to point out negatives is not a bad thing. all games have down sides, I would play many other games with SoC people, if they only cared to take the time to pull me over (LOTR, TF2, SC, RS). right now im playing DN, and if you are bored with your current game because of its negative aspects (RS, SC, MC, LOTR, TF2) you should come play DN with me, its new and wont be boring for several days!

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}SoC{R3NNiS
Guardian Elder
Posts: 9385
Joined: 13 years ago


In the past I've seen recruiting within SoC from one branch to another not very successful, that is on its own. Instead, as happened last year, we asked branches to focus on reaching out to new people, posting heavily on outside forums and recruiting people into the branch and into SoC. Age of Empires branch kind of introduced this idea years back (though it is hindsight that I recognized this pattern) They forming a 20 person branch- extremely close kit- relying mainly on the AoE forums and Clan Chat. There was almost zero successful recruitment from members inside of SoC.

For the branches that applied this last year, it seemed to have worked extremely well in getting new people involved, the activity of the branches jumped and there were more than enough players, and that had the side effect of attracting existing members to cross branches.

So, while it's fine to banter a bit, and its fine to invite others from one area to anther, we can't have any expectation or manufacture an obligation of "mixing." Invite regularlly to playnights, but I advise a focus on invitations outside of SoC- Nexon's forums or in-game.

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}SoC{Djp49
Branch Leader
Posts: 1842
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}SoC{B-Rye wrote:
I think that people from every branch should try to persuade other branches to spend less time playing there and more time playing a different game. if they say things that are true (RS is a grind, MC is pointless, DN is simplistic, etc) to sell their game then thats fine.
While I support not getting so caught up in a game that it causes problems and strains friendship, you come out appearing forceful to me, Bryan. You shouldn't try to force people to leave their games, even if they are slaving over them too much. Be inviting to folks to play with you, be encouraging if they're too seclusive and only play one thing, but don't force anyone. You'll alienate a lot of people that way. If every branch was the way that you're describing, it would to lead to a lot of competition, hurt feelings, and fighting between branches, because they're all trying to get other people to leave other branches and play in their own branch. We are supposed to welcoming, not forceful.
}SoC{B-Rye wrote:
all games have down sides, I would play many other games with SoC people, if they only cared to take the time to pull me over (LOTR, TF2, SC, RS).
My problem with this is that you won't play these games because of the reasons previously stated by yourself. It's not all like "well, they just won't invite me to play with them." We've seen your attitude towards Runescape, so there is much doubt that you would even want to play with us. The important thing though, is that you're always more than welcome to play with people (and if they refuse to play with you, something needs to be addressed on their end), and there's no harm in asking "hey, can I play with you guys?". If you'd like to play with us, that's great, but your attitude about the whole thing is going to set it in stone (if it hasn't already)that "Bryan doesn't want to play RS, he thinks it's stupid, etc... so why invite him to play if he's already made it clear?" When you give people the attitude of "I hate the style of that game," you're hardly encouraging them to invite you to play with them.

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Topic author
Ell
Registered User
Posts: 2758
Joined: 8 years ago


I think a few opinionated criticisms have turned to hostility. I think we should all withdraw from this discussion.

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}SoC{R3NNiS
Guardian Elder
Posts: 9385
Joined: 13 years ago


^Good advice. Take a breather. Pray, reflect, and come back to this another day.

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B-Rye
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I don't mean to come across as a hater :(

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